Greatest American Songwriter Of All Time?
August 21st, 2007
So, a debate was foisted on me just now regarding the Greatest Songwriter Of All Time. The caveat to this ‘discussion’ is that the songwriter has to be American. Not an easy feat when most of what you listen to is British, and, dare I say, most quality, prolific songwriters are also British (Robert Smith, Martin L. Gore, Damon Albarn, Morrissey, The Beatles)
Lots of names are being bandied about but I remain unconvinced: Paul Simon, Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Ryan Adams.
So who is the greatest American songwriter, and why? What makes a great songwriter? Writing other people’s songs or putting your own voice to your music?
My answer, if we’re talking about contemporary songwriters that will be remembered five or even ten years from now, is Beck. He writes quality songs of surprising variety, ranging from heartwrenching (see also: anything on Sea Change) to funky (Mixed Bizness), to sexy (Debra) to lighthearted (I Think I’m In Love).
He’s remained culturally relevant for almost fifteen years now, and he’s constantly mixing up his sound and evolving as an artist while still maintaining critical and commercial acclaim. Thoughts?
Posted on Tuesday, August 21st, 2007 at 3:33 pm by Kat and is filed under Music & Videos.
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40 Responses to “Greatest American Songwriter Of All Time?”
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My top 2 American songwriters:
1. Stephen Merritt from The Magnetic Fields (also of Future Bible Heroes, The 6ths, and The Gothic Archies)
2. Daniel Johnston
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Ahem. First of all, that douche Damon Albarn deserves no part of this list. Also, Morrissey? Don’t cry, you pompous twit - no one really cares about your latest sob story. I’m even giving you a free pass on the whole kickstarting goth and emo movements. Yeah I’m holding you responsible.
Now then, BECK? Are you crazy? Novelty, novelty, novelty, plus he’s a Scientologist, making him loonier than a toon. He’s a tin-pot mediocre-at-best songwriter - in the annals of music history, he’ll mostly always be known as the guy who wrote about how much of a Loser he is.
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Jesse Lacey
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PS daniel johnston = bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa
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Hmmmmm… I wasn’t kidding about Daniel Johnston. He’s right up there with Brian Wilson (who’s another name to add to the list). Daniel Johnston has had his songs covered by an incredible number of highly respected artists, including Beck.
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Me & Julio Down By The Schoolyard…I GUESS it has cultural significance. !!! *did* use the title as a play on their single Me & Giuliani Down By The Schoolyard. Is that what you mean by cultural significance?
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Ohhh, Brian Wilson is a good call. But he loses major points for going crazy after “Pet Sounds” and not releasing “Smile” until 2001.
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May I present “Big Business Monkey” by Daniel Johnston
big business monkey
nothing’s funny
big business monkey
everything’s money
he sold cheeseburgers with that cashier’s smile
he runs his house like a burger king manager
and the only jokes he knows are the ones that’ll put you down
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i don’t think having your song covered means ure a great songwriter. britney spears and nelly have had their music covered too and they’re not great musicians.
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Oh and my picks would be KISS or Guns N’ Roses - think about it…who DOESN’T have some attachment to one of THEIR songs.
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Whoa!
Beck. No.
It doesn’t work. First of all this is hard question to answer because you haven’t given rules. Like what matters more - quality or quantity? Jimmy Buffet could easily win . Gah. And you can’t put Beck in the same category as Bob Dylan or Tom Waits - I mean you can, but 15 years later? How many years do these guys have on him? That has to count for something. And yes, they are still relevant.
Also, what about John Prine, Towns Van Zandt, Brian Wilson or Harry Chapin? If we are talking about just the quality of songs? These guys are shoe-ins. And I sort of think that’s what it should be based on. What makes a song great? And do you have the talent to make a great American song more than once?
John Prine - Angel from Montgomery/ Sam Stone/ Illegal Smile
Towns Van Zandt - Waitin’ Around to Die/ To Live is to Fly
Brian Wilson - turn on a radio.
Harry Chapin - What Made America Famous/ Salt and Pepper
With song they weave tales that define Americana. I think that’s what makes a Great American Song = Greatest American Songwriter.
Or Willie Nelson, Cat Stevens, Woody Guthrie?? etc.
And how messed up is it that for the life of me I can’t think of one artist since 2000 that should even be suggested? I think I am very old.
I also think that if it was the Best American Cover Musician of All Time Johnny Cash would win hands down.
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Huge call on Townes Van Zandt. That’s actually the first person my father listed…. wait, Dad?
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where are the ladies at?
i’d nominate fiona apple & tori amos if they were even contenders.
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Why are we even debating this…? I think we should concentrate on the Greatest CANADIAN Songwriter Of All Time. Someone like Leonard Cohen would take the top prize
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I agree! Every time I think I have someone to add to the list I remember they’re Canadian.
- Burton Cummings & Randy Bachman
- Bryan Adams
- Neil Young
- The Band
That’s right, my Dad listened to classic rock when I was a kid!
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I’m still a huge fan of Michael Stipe. I present for your consideration the following snippet from Imitation of Life :
“You want the greatest thing
The greatest thing since bread came sliced.
You’ve got it all, you’ve got it sized.
Like a Friday fashion show teenager
Freezing in the corner
Trying to look like you don’t try.”
That’s some deep sh@#!
And I couldn’t agree more with Soja! Does Neil Young count as an American or Canadian?
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what about jeff buckley?
-Bob Dylan suggested he was one of the most promising singer/songwriters of all time
-He also died mysteriously, which to me is an ABSOLUTE requirement.
Unless you have both of the above requirements met, please don’t consider yourself fit to respond.
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I really must chime in as the voice of age (and reason perhaps). As a long time student of the singer-songwriter (face it, that’s where the real songwriting skill is found), I must agree with that smart young man Loyalj.
Although seeing some of the truly great names above, T. Van Zandt, John Prine and Harry Chapin are all really close. However, My nod must go with Paul Simon. Very large cultural influence. In 1969, my high school English class actually dissected “Sounds of Silence” for its literary value. Admittedly things were different, but I can’t imagine anyone looking at the lyrics quoted above.
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I really must chime in as the voice of age (and reason perhaps). As a long time student of the singer-songwriter (face it, that’s where the real songwriting skill is found), I must agree with that smart young man Loyalj.
Although seeing some of the truly great names above, T. Van Zandt, John Prine and Harry Chapin are all really close. However, My nod must go with Paul Simon. Very large cultural influence. In 1969, my high school English class actually dissected “Sounds of Silence” for its literary value. Admittedly things were different, but I can’t imagine anyone looking at the lyrics quoted above.
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I think Neil Young is considered both. But no matter, cause he’s in my bottom 1 list of Neils.
I agree with Michael Stipe.
And if this list was Canadian, Leonard Cohen would be #1. Too bad his voice sucks, but man, he writes beautiful lyrics and songs for OTHER people to sing.
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@ Riv: I kind of agree with Jeff Buckley but I hesitated to put him on my list of top SONGWRITERS - he IS one of my favourite SINGERS of all time, however:
- of his most well-known songs, two are actually covers (not songs he wrote)…see also: Leonard Cohen.
- his most beautiful songs were never officially released or are less well known. What are your favourite JB songs? I love Dream Brother, So Real, Opened Once, Lover You Should Have Come Over.
Another criteria is that the songwriter has to have been hot at some point (JB fits this one). J/K.
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@riv
Dying early is a serious point against in my opinion. It just inflates semi-worthy artists to loftier heights than they deserve. Seriously, had anyone even heard of Lennon before 1981? Would Kennedy’s image have survived public scrutiny had he served a full presidency? Would Bowser still be though of as a king had Mario and Luigi not dispatched him in level 8?
dying makes it too easy. people can only say nice things about you when you die young.
and yes, that’s really my dad. he likes the white stripes.
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Are you speaking of JOHN Lennon? As in who had heard of JOHN Lennon before 1981?
You can’t be serious.
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I can only think of one Lennon who rocketed to stardom in 1981… the late Mr. Ono, husband of the great avant guard artist, Yoko.
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I was going to say Jeff Buckley myself, but whenever anyone hears his name they only think of “Hallelujah”, which is a rendition of the Leonard Cohen hit - who is Canadian (my vote for greatest Canadian songwriter).
So, I’m gonna throw a bone to Cat Stevens, his lyrics hit you hard.
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I must completely agree with Jeff Buckley being a great songwriter… As much as Hallelujah is a Leonard Cohen song, Lover you should have come over and Eternal Life and most importantly Dream Brother is the most brilliant songs ever written. Ray Lamontagne is up there - two albums and already he is more brilliant then most people.
Ryan Adams is fantastic too, The Sun Also Sets **** The Universe, there are so many songs by people. There are so many Modern and Older Songwriters… The debate would take too long to settle because there are so many hidden gems in the music world past and present.
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I care not for these comments about how you enjoy Jeff Buckleys cover songs.
What if I were to murder you loyalj, do you think your alexadex stock of life would increase? Jeff Buckley would be in the “movers and shakers”.
Excellent comments Baula.
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@riv
I think you are underestimating my brand value among the 18 - 25′ers. People know me…I’m kind of a big deal.
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@loyalj
perhaps that is true, however to steer this discussion back on track to the original topic, (which I believe is how we can relate quality writers to alexadex scores)
Your brand is the equivalent of buying Oscars.com one week before the show is to air; sure you may be thinking you’re clever, you’ll get your spike in traffic and temporary increase in rank, but quickly you’ll fizzle out and find yourself reminiscing on “the good old days” and “remember when’s” at your local watering hole with others that had visions of grandeur but somehow ended up in the same spot.
Jeff Buckley, is more like yahoo.com; a straight line of consistency, many complain that yahoo is dead, management has been shuffled, and the stock price stagnant, but again, what about its alexadex ranking? You can’t argue with line graphs.
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My 2 Willy’s- Willie Nelson and Willy Boroski - both from the hill country in Texas.
Willy Boroski was my favorite songwriters in the 1980’s.
He co-wrote with many other songwriters in Country Music that I knew. and He wrote my favorite song- the tribute to Marty Robbins. I was (I’m 71) and still am a huge Marty Robbins fan and his tribute was the best. -
1.Bob Dylan? hello.
2.Lennon and McCartney
3.Jim Morrison
and who the hell is Willy Boroski?….show me one song he wrote that did anything. Is he a foreign act?I Went all through the All Music Guide and could not find one single song he wrote, not even the one “Molly” mentioned? Checked the country charts back to ‘67, and no sign of this song…What’s up? -
Irving Berlin. Who, of any age, doesn’t know and respond to those songs?
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Okay I’m gonna drop some ladies that you have totally missed
I’m not saying they are the best except maybe King and Nyro and Thomas but they are damn good and better than a lot of the men on this list. And I am going by song writing not by “hits”.Carole King
Laura Nyro
Irma Thomas
Kathleen Brennan who co-writes most of Tom Waits stuff
Stevie Nicks
Sylvia Moy
Patty Griffin
Marcia Ball
Nina Simone
Loretta Lynn
Dolly Parton
Valerie Simpson
Alison Krause
Cassandra Wilson
Blossom Dearie
Abbey Lincoln
Odetta
Koko Taylor
Etta James
Melissa Ethridge
Suzanne Vega (she gets my quirky lyrics award)
Indigo Girls
Madonna (okay this one is purely based on hits. And lord what great pop hits she had).
Mariah CareyToo bad Joni Mitchel is Canadian or she’d be on the list too.
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Who is this a**hole? Beck!!!??? WTF? Is this a serious music discussion board or some franchised branch of MTV’s “The Hills”? You might as well have said The Jonas Brothers–these days they seem to be just as “culturally relevant” as f**king Beck. That bit about the most “quality and prolific songwriters” coming from the UK is equally as musically uninformed. Not only do you clearly not know who the best British songwriters are, you completely forgot that the impetus behind most, if not all, British music is pop and the pursuit of fame. You’d all be hard-pressed to make any sound arguments against the following:
Bob Dylan
Paul Simon
Willie Nelson
Johnny Cash
Carole King -
Good gracious. All time, people. ALL TIME. Not just since you entered puberty.
I submit that the greatest American songwriter of all time is Stephen Foster. More than 150 years after his death, nearly everyone reading this post will know at least half of these melodies:
“Old Folks at Home” (AKA ‘Way Down Upon the Swanee River’)
“Camptown Races” (’Camptown ladies sing this song, do-dah, do-dah)
“Oh Susanna” (Don’t you cry for me. I come to Louisanna with a Banjo on my knee.)
“Jeannie with the Light Brown Hair” (I Dream of Jeannie)I suspect that Irving Berlin might be able to stand the test of time. But who, in the year 2150, will be able to whistle a melody by Beck? Please…
Oh, BTW, John Lennon and Paul McCartney will have a tough time being considered the greatest American songwriters considering they are British.
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Excuse me if I jump in here with a name unmentioned that would be considered by any measure in the top five by any person with musical knowledge of the last century: Richard Rodgers.
By one measure, his influence on other artists, no one comes close. Consider his 1959 hit ‘My Favorite Things’ from The Sound of Music - stripped even of its melody and lyrics, what Coltrane did with the skeletal harmonic structure changed music permanently.
Dozens of Rodgers songs have transcended genre and become standards in jazz, R&B, pop, even country. Also one of only 2 people to be awarded an Oscar, an Emmy,a Grammy, a Tony, and a Pulitzer prize! -
Willy Boroski is from Willy and the Cowboy, (Country Duet) from the 1980’s. I loved the Tribute to Marty Robbins. I still have his record! (45 record). If you don’t know who Willy Boroski is (his real name is listed on the record as writer)ask around and you will find old fans like me still around.
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Still no sign of that Tribute to Marty Robbins on any chart or anywhere on the entire internet? It is mentioned multiple places by Willy Boroski himself, but is not even mentioned in print anywhere else. If it was on the charts, it should be listed somewhere? Sounds like just self-promotion. Molly, you’re not this Willy guy are you…lol You’re the only one that’s ever heard of him….Tell me where I can see that song on the charts ,as they are all archived, and make me , and all us others believers
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Lou Reed has been totally overlooked on this list come on if not the best at least he deserves a mention
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Martin L. Gore? You would have lost a lot less of my respect if you had listed Raffi.